The Assignment

Student Responses

Wrap Up and Comments

THE ASSIGNMENT: Workshop Principles

1. After completing the reading assignments, write a paragraph describing the very best experience you have ever had in a writers workshop. If you have not previously participated in a writers workshop, write a paragraph describing the very best experience you hope to have in our workshop.

2. Make a list of the greatest dangers you see that might come from participation in a writers workshop. If you actually know of any negative experience that has happened, describe it.

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STUDENT RESPONSES

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Dennis wrote:

The very best experience I hope to have in our workshop:

1. Open and honest feedback in a low risk environment (I don't want to get beat up, but I also do not want a false sense of security.)

2. The opportunity to raise questions and get other's opinions on issues.

Greatest dangers of the workshop:

1. Potential to give/receive overzealous criticism.

Going through this exercise has helped solidify a number of the ground rules that were laid out for the course.

-Dennis

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Jennifer wrote:

Dennis,

To me this is one of the biggest ADVANTAGES of this workshop. It gives me a feeling of safety re: the sending and receiving of feedback. (Nobody will know if they hurt my feeling!!) ;-)

Jennifer

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Dennis wrote:

Jennifer,

What I was really thinking when I made the statement about the internet getting impersonal . . . I really don't like to take meaningful advice or critique from total strangers (this probably comes from my mother telling me to never speak to strangers). On a certain level, I think we all like to know who we are communicating with. Writing the Bio's has certainly helped for us to understand some things about everyone in the group. I am a guy from a small town culture, so I like things to have a personal touch.

This being said, I agree with you very much, that this is a safe place to take some risks, because at the end of the day, you don't have to look eyeball to eyeball with anyone. If I have a "not so good" idea, I probably will not be running into Charles or anyone else at Kroger next week.

Dennis

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Jim wrote:

Although I attended a "writer's workshop" in North Caralina, it was not "hands-on" I met a lot of nice people, several already well accepted, but there was no feedback, it was all talks. My hope is this workshop will push me to new limits, teach me new work habits, force me to learn to deal with creative deadlines. I'm used to deadlines, but they have been more like an oxymoron "Flexible Deadlines"

My fear is that I'll provide more "flash & smoke" and won't learn to internalize to the degree some of our classmates have already displayed. Since I'm semi-retired, I'm used to juggling; keeping all the balls in the air at once. As one friend said after he had retired "I don't know how I ever found time to go to work." My other fear is that I become so dominant that Nancy backs off and retreats into her shell. I'm so excited about this group that I went and invested $2 in a copy of "The Writer's Handbook-2001" at our Friends of the Library bookstore.

Dennis showed a lot of bravery, posting first! He addressed many hopes and fears I'm sure we all face. One thing though…I suspect if we really want to write, no amout of criticism will discourage us…it will just force us to find a different venue to express ourselves. Stephen King didn't listen to his writing instructors. If you haven't read it, I recommend his book "On Writing" Another one of my "Southern Porch" writer's group suggested is "The First Five Pages…A Writer's Guide to Staying Out of the Rejection Pile" by Noah Lukeman.

Now, if I can remember what Dawn said about writing, not just reading…

JimA

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Jennifer wrote:

Jim wrote "I suspect if we really want to write, no amount of criticism will discourage us…"

I've been thinking about this and wanted to share the following situation.

I know a woman here at Auburn Univ. who wanted to write romances. She had started writing a book about a football coach at a "large Southern university". Her plot revolved around political issues on campus and in the athletic department. She entered this in a contest sponsored by a romance writers group in California and was expecting feedback from three judges.

The first two judges were complimentary and offered specific, helpful suggestions. The third really ripped it up. She included comments to the effect that the story was "totally unrealistic" and that situations as described "never would happen at a university", "College football is nothing like you describe", etc.

Now, please consider the fact that my co-worker had worked for the university for over 20 years at that point and had actually worked for the athletic department for most of that time. She knew what she was writing about. (In fact, in my opinion after being at the university for only 10 years, her situations were a little TOO real!)

Ideally, she should have taken what was useful from those three evaluations and just tossed the rest. Instead, to the best of my knowledge, she has never written another word on this book OR ANY OTHER. (It's been about 5 years now.)

So maybe she didn't REALLY want to write?

Jennifer

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Elizabeth wrote:

} So maybe she didn't REALLY want to write?

I think she did/does want to write, she's just so devastated by the gratuitious attack on her efforts that she's afraid to try again.

I also think she should have reported that judge to the contest organizers. That person should never be allowed to judge again. Such comments are totally unacceptable.

Elizabeth

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Jim wrote:

I'll stick to my guns on this one. If you'd let a judge, who HAS to write comments (like a teacher, but less responsibility) on every entry, who may be having a bad day, who knows the subject less than you do…influence your whole writing career, then maybe you don't. Stephen king's writing teacher told him not to give up his day job. I think we need to understand we are offering our heart in our hands when we submit personal writing. Every lover you ever have will not say the same glowing things you expect. Take to heart the parts that help, forget the parts that can't help. <altho name calling in private may help> IMHO

JimA

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Nancy wrote:

I have not attended a true writers workshop. But, I did have an experience with having my writing read by others. When I started school the last time (5 years ago), I arrived the first night of the first class with my written assignment in hand. The man that sat down next to me introduced himself to me and then asked if he could read my assignment. I quickly replied “NO!”. Two years later, in our last class together, he sat down next to me on the night our major written assignment was due and asked if he could read my paper. I quickly replied “YES!” and handed it to him. In the intervening two years I had learned that I could trust him. He would tell me what he liked about what I had written and would tell me how my paper differed from his. Also, he would let me read what he had written. During those two years we worked together on many presentations and papers, learning about the other’s strengths and weaknesses, and helping to fill in the blanks for the other. The best experience I can hope for in a writers workshop is the experience of trusting the others in the group to help me when I need it, to encourage me when I need it, and to allow me to express myself when I feel comfortable enough. To help me “fill in the blanks” that I have.

The greatest danger is the opposite of the best experience – my not ever feeling safe enough to be able to share my writing with the rest of the group, comfortably. I have little experience in writing and am very uncomfortable with having someone else read what I have written. The second greatest danger is that I might become addicted to writing and not have time to do all of the other things I have to do. You know, things like going to work every day and doing the dishes and laundry.

Nancy

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Jennifer wrote:

I have participated in a couple of "continuing-ed" writing classes. In both I learned more about the instructor's work-in-progress than my own. I wrote very little.

What I am hoping for in this workshop is that having deadlines and assignments will help me make progress and stay focused. I'm hoping for honest, constructive feedback on the things that I post.

Greatest dangers of the workshop:

Jennifer

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Elizabeth wrote:

Positive experience: I have been in three writers' workshops, and I have been gratified to joy by high praise from each of the instructors/moderators. Another peak was the fellow student who remarked in one class, "I'm always glad when Elizabeth gets to read because I just love the story she's working on." His spontaneous comment and enthusiasm showed that for at least one reader, I was succeeding in writing an interesting -- maybe even gripping - story.

Negative experience: I joined my first workshop in the third semester, while most other participants had been together from the beginning. During a break in one of the first classes, an older student proudly informed me, "We're very hard on people in this class, especially newcomers. We've even driven some people away." I wondered why in the world anyone would take pride in such a result, but I kept my reaction to myself. Sure enough, a few sessions later, despite the teacher's having praised my selections, I felt as though most of the class turned against me -- and the majority of their comments weren't even valid; they were negative just for the sake of being negative. The course lost all value for me, and I never went back.

Elizabeth

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Genie wrote:

The very best experience I have ever had in a writer's workshop came early in my writing career. After I read a scene, I suddenly realized my character was being cussed and discussed as though she were a real person. I heard people saying things like: Elaine would never do this or that; I know she'd do this or that; She'd say so and so for sure. As inexperienced as I was, I was thrilled to be taken seriously and felt validated as a writer.

My most negative experience came when I re-read a section I had laboriously rewritten in accordance with suggestions from the group. The feedback on the rewrite was terribly frustrating because it amounted to ideas that would actually put it back the way I had it in the first place. It was a big set-back for me but also an experience in learning to trust myself. This week's reading assignment addresses this and will help me next time it arises.

Genie

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Pamela Butler wrote:

Best Experience in a Writers Workshop

Technically I have never attended a writers workshop however I am currently a member of Florida Writers Association (FLWA) which is a great group. I receive valuable information on a daily basis including informational web sites, available editors & publishers, copyright info, workshops, conferences, newsletters etc. It is almost too much information. There are monthly meetings but interestingly there is no reading or critiquing of individual work and workshops, especially those sponsored by local universities, are highly discouraged. Several horror stories of public humiliation were readily shared by the founder of the group hence no public criticism, constructive or otherwise. The founder has generously offered to read anyone's work, offering a private critique. I have not to date taken advantage of this offer. The group is very encouraging, welcoming all regardless of writing experience or publishing status. My very best experience to date? It was through FLWA that I learned of the Harriette Austin Workshop and was encouraged to enroll. That said, as far as the very best experience I hope to have in this workshop, that was pretty much summed up by Dennis, who I thought did an excellent job, especially when he wrote:

Open and honest feedback in a low risk environment (I don't want to get beat up, but I also do not want a false sense of security.)

Benefit from the structure created by the workshop. The assignments and deadlines will promote a degree of priority and urgency to writing.

Greatest Dangers

I thought Dennis captured all the potential danger that could occur until I read Jennifers' response to which I could personally relate.

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Jennifer W. wrote:

Writers' Workshop Assignment

I have never been in a formal writer's workshop. During my youthful writing phase in my late teens and early twenties, my family acted as both audience and critic. What I enjoyed most about this experience was the feedback provided by our black Lab, Hoss. He was an attentive and eager listener. He preferred the rhythm of the typewriter versus the noise I made practicing (banging on) the piano.

When I lifted his ear to read him freshly written poetry, his feedback was much more subtle and loving than the sharp-edged tongue of my oldest sister, Cindy. If Hoss liked the poem, his approval was instant and loving. With a wag of his tail, he would show his approval by licking a human body part such as, a bare leg or foot. If he didn't like the piece, he would uncurl from his fur-ball position and walk out of the room. He offered no apologies for his lack of enthusiasm. If he found the story poorly constructed, his response was memorable; he passed gas, then exited the room.

Ok, time to get serious, the greatest dangers of participating in a writing workshop is being a harsh critic (of self and others). I can see the danger of receiving such varied feedback as to cause some "paralysis by analysis" - or "getting caught up in your shorts" as my girlfriend Martha used to say. Since I don't have much at stake except my ego, please be kind but honest. Although I am a college graduate, I must have slept through grammar classes. Fellow grammarians: my apologies for poor sentence construction and other offensive mistakes.

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Sandi wrote:

The most I hope to achieve from this writing workshop is to get out of myself. Basically a shy person at heart, I seldom take criticism well. I hope to change that. My husband is my first reader, and although I value his criticism (yeah, right!), I wish he would read the draft completely before unsheathing his ball-point sword. I don't feel he has the gist of the story when he starts line editing before even finishing the first paragraph. He gives valuable insights, however, and when I haven't felt comfortable revealing my guts to anyone else, he tries to be kind. (I'm really not trying to husband-bash here.) Having kindred spirits evaluate my works will toughen my skin and hopefully improve my skills.

My greatest fears in sharing my work in a workshop are (in order of appearance):

1. I will lose the love of writing if too many people tell me I stink!

2. My fantastic idea will be engulfed by another, more prolific writer who will undoubtedly make it into a bestseller.

Although, being assured these will not come to pass, my mind does not release the fear willingly.

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Charles:

Workshop Principles wrap up

Hi guys,

Your responses to the Workshop Principles assignment make very interesting reading when you see them all together. In them you will see some shared hopes and some shared fears.

I have some comments I would like to make and I would like to restate my own view regarding the proper conduct of our workshop, your participation, my role, and what I know you can get from it.

Let me begin by saying that the workshop was fortunate to have Dennis' quick analytical mind to produce the most comprehensive list of hopes and fears, that each of you then reflected upon and added your own points. I think everyone can probably agree that each of you hold his six positive points as your own aspirations for the workshop experience, plus the others you added individually.

Among those of you who have prior experience in workshops or in working with other people in a collaborative writing atmosphere, Nancy, Elizabeth, Genie and Michael gave testimonials to positive experiences they have had. I ask you to look again at what they said if you have lingering fears or insecurities about what a good workshop experience can mean to you. I can add many of my own experiences to theirs. I have seen aspiring writers come into the workshop experience with no confidence, no history of writing, and no clear idea where they want to go with it. And I have then seen them evolve, blossom and prosper at it.

I have also seen doctors, lawyers, college professors and other professionals with heavy backgrounds in many types of nonfiction writing come to the workshops looking for something else, a different kind of writing. I have seen some of them take right off into creative writing as if it were second nature. And I have seen others struggle for months and sometimes years, their writing not seeming to go anywhere, and then almost overnight something happens with them. They have an insight, or they hear a presentation, or something just clicks in their minds and a whole row of concepts and abilities just seem to line up and fall in place, and their writing takes on a whole new level of quality and direction. I've seen others that just never seem to make the transition. I believe what you find here will enable you to make that transition.

I have also seen some wonderful wordsmiths, people who can string words and phrases into the most beautiful descriptions you have ever heard, people whose writing I envy and whose abilities I covet -- but they never advance any further, they never go anywhere with their writing, they never finish a manuscript. Those are the ones that are hardest for me to fathom. It reminds me of a good friend I had in college who was an outstanding classical and flamingo guitarist. I've never heard anyone better. But he could never seem to follow through with it and drifted aimlessly, while those of us who had none would have killed for his talent.

The fears you expressed and the bad experiences some of you have had, it seems to me, center around two areas that were handled inappropriately or incompetently in those workshops. The main of those negative experiences involved critiques and lack of good will.

We are not born into life with the competence or the aptitude to give good literary critique. We all have opinions. They're like ears, everyone has at least two. But an opinion is not a literary critique. A competent, valid, literary critique is not an uninformed opinion, and those who try to offer a critique from an uninformed position are performing an injustice to the writer, to themselves and to the other members of the collaborative.

You become informed by study, just as you are doing now. Once you understand about writing techniques, characters, dialogue, plotting, etc., etc., then you have a knowledge base that is necessary for an informed critique. You can always say, "Personally, I like the part where you . . . ," or "If you are trying here to accomplish ????, in my mind it does not have that effect." Those are legitimate personal reactions that may be helpful to the writer. But there is another part.

I said in the beginning, and I will remind you from time to time, the only reason this workshop exists is to provide you with the help that you come looking for. And in turn, if you receive help from the workshop then you are obligated to give help in return. Nowhere in that contract does it say that anyone is to be snobbish, hateful, condescending, or any other variation of hurtful. We must all come together in common pursuit and goodwill. I think this is the chief area in which some workshop environments fail. It is the obligation of the workshop managers and of every member to at all times be sensitive to and enforce civility. My basic principle on this topic: Anything worth saying can be said in a kind, considerate and constructive way. When you have knowledge, experience, suggestions or insight that can help a member of the workshop with their writing, offer it at the appropriate time and in the appropriate manner--but offer it.

At the same time, each of you be aware and tolerant of individual personalities and modes of expression. Please don't take offense unless there is good reason. Many people get annoyed at my wisecracking and my sometimes failed attempts at humor, but be assured, as obscure as my statements may be at times, they are never offered with ill will. And I expect no less of anyone else. But I also expect each of you to give benefit of doubt before you become offended. And if you are offended by something that is said or done, or not said or done, let me know privately and let me try to clarify or correct it without making it a public issue among the participants. There are civil ways to handle any situation that could arise. And if that doesn't work, I'll kick ass.

So, subject to addition and improvement, here are our basic workshop rules of conduct that I believe will provide each of you with the experience that we all want. I expect everyone to observe these rules and I will enforce them as my responsibility:

1. Anything worth saying can be said in a kind, considerate, constructive manner.

2. Never do harm. If your comment will do harm, don't make it. Our purpose is to blossom and prosper, not to suffer and wither.

3. Your participation in the workshop obligates you to help others when you can.

4. All participants are due an equal allocation of time and other resources. Take your full share, but not an excess.

5. Act in good will, always assume good will.

6. In the event that anything should go amiss, come to me directly with it.

The fourth point works in two directions. I can't force anyone to participate. But you need to. It's the best way for you to learn. I think you will find that your participation will be rewarded and we will all grow from it. Most writers are by nature shy and insecure. If you are a shy or insecure person, let this workshop environment neutralize those characteristics for you. We are going to be just a group of supportive friends helping each other.

If there is anything missing here that you feel you need in our contract to make you comfortable and willing to participate fully, email me privately and I'll adjust or add to our rules as appropriate.

Now then, let's get to work on the business of writing!

-Charles the benevolent enforcer